The SYRIAN WAR Thread

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by AKarlin, May 6, 2013.

  1. Russian Truth

    Russian Truth Office Registrar (13th class)

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    So far only Pat Buchanan seems to be impressed by the letter.


    It would be political suicide for an American politician to say anything nice about Russia. Rule #1-Never criticize Israel. Rule #2-Never say anything nice about Russia.
    Carlo likes this.
  2. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    I think much of the horror ensues from the fact that Putin is an ex-KGB "spy"; ergo: he is a Communist; ergo: he is an atheist; ergo: he has no morals, in that in denying the existence of god he is devoid of morality; ergo: he has no grounds for giving the god-fearing USA lectures on morality and using god in his argument against US foreign policy.

    The string of deductions are, of course all non-sequiturs.

    I have known several Communists who were not atheists: my wife, for example, was a Communist and was christened shortly after her birth by her parents, who were also Communists and members of the Russian Orthodox Church. Don't know about one of her granddads, though, who was a Petrograd Red Guard in 1917.
  3. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    I think the major reason this Op Ed has provoked such a hostile reaction is that for the first time ever a Russian leader is more in tune with US public opinion than the US political class is. Receiving stern lectures about international law from the leader of Russia, a man typically represented as a cross between Hitler and Caligula, must be more infuriating still.
  4. SWSpires

    SWSpires Gubernial Secretary (12th class)

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    Bingo. Everyone I know is against getting involved in another war in the Middle East. The political class doesn't seem to realize just how sick, tired and disgusted the general public is with them and their quest to police the world. A lot of people are hugely enjoying the spectacle of Putin trying to slap some sense into Obama. Somebody I read said that Putin's editorial was like a clever adult messing with the mind of a 7-year-old child, the child in question being Obama.
  5. Robert

    Robert Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

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    According to the Archdruid Report a guy called Spengler, columnist for The Asian Times, was insisting tongue in cheek that the US ought to elect Vladimir Putin as its next president, since he's got plenty of experience with rescuing a collapsed superpower. It was a very edged joke, sharpened considerably by the fact that Putin seems considerably more capable of talking plain common sense than any of the buffoons we have at the top of US politics these days.
  6. Reggie Kabaeva

    Reggie Kabaeva Office Registrar (13th class)

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  7. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    What Gung-Ho Kerry actually did in Vietnam.

    "Accidental atrocities" he has said in his biography!!!

    So I wonder what Skull and Bones would say to those who might argue that there certainly have been atrocities committed in Syria, but that they were "accidental"?
  8. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Well we now have an agreement between Lavrov and Kerry, which ends the immediate crisis. I don't know whether the Syrians are involved but I presume they are. The point is that Syria will get rid of its chemical weapons under the Chemical Weapons Convention. There will be no Security Council Resolution unless the chemical weapons inspectors report that Syria is in breach of its obligations. However in that case the matter will be referred by the inspectors to the UN Security Council, which will decide what to do. That may include action under Chapter VII, but there is no commitment from the Russians on that.

    Adopting tennis language, this is game, set and match to Russia.

    I should stress that this deals with only the immediate crisis. The US political class is furious at its humiliation and the regime change mafia has not gone away. You can be sure that they will now work overtime to manipulate the inspectors and the disarmament process in Syria to say that Syria is in breach of its obligations under the Chemical Weapons Convention so that they can demand a Security Council Resolution under Chapter VII. That after all is what happened in Iraq in the 1990s. Much will depend the makeup of the inspection team that will be sent to Syria and who will head it. If it is someone like Hans Blix then it will do its job properly. If it someone like Richard Butler or David Kay then our troubles may have just begun.

    Notwithstanding this important caveat for the time being military action has been taken off the table, chemical weapons are being removed from a conflict zone, the regime change mafia has suffered a humiliating defeat, international law has been upheld, Russia has scored a diplomatic triumph and Assad has not only survived but has received further international recognition as the head of the legitimate government of Syria. Today we should be content with that.
  9. Robert

    Robert Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

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    Saker is pessimistic about the deal

    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/lavrov-blunders-in-geneva-and-accepts.html

  10. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Though I have a great deal of respect for the blogger who writes as the Vineyard of the Saker he has seriously misunderstood the nature of the agreement Lavrov and Kerry made today, probably because he sees this crisis through Syrian eyes rather than through Russian ones.

    As Russia has repeatedly explained, it is defending international law not Assad. The reference in the agreement to a possible Security Council Resolution under Chapter VII is needed to emphasise that it is the Security Council alone NOT the US acting unilaterally, which has the sole authority to decide whether or not Syria is in breach of its obligations under the Chemical Weapons Convention and to decide what action should then be taken. References in the agreement to the Security Council are consistent with and reinforce the Russian position. It is the US which has been consistently claiming the right to act outside the authority of the Security Council and it is Russia, which has been arguing against. The terms of the agreement reflect the Russian position, not the US position.

    The important thing is that there will not be Chapter VII Resolution now. It is also clear from the text of the agreement that the Russians will be directly involved in its implementation. In other words they are not ceding control of the disarmament process to the US and its allies as happened disastrously in Iraq in the 1990s.

    Here is the text of the agreement.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-on-Syrias-chemical-weapons-deal-in-full.html
  11. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    All the editorials that I have read this morning, though welcoming the developments in Syria, repeatedly state that Putin supports Assad.

    It's that usual class of meme mentioned in this thread (or was it in another or in Kremlin Stooge?) whereby the Western media personifies states. They just cannot seem to accept the fact that the Russian government is demanding that international law be adhered to.

    The other endlessly repeated meme in the West is, of course, that Russia and Syria are "allies", the Russian naval base there being presented as irrefutable proof of this fact.

    Guantanamo is in Cuba, is it not?

    Are Cuba and the USA "allies" then?
  12. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    [​IMG]

    Syrians are killing Syrians.

    And now we must kill Syrians in order to stop Syrians killing Syrians!
  13. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    The reconsiderations always come late. A report on the Libyan intervention

    http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/publication/23387/lessons_from_libya.html

    BOTTOM LINES

    The Conventional Wisdom Is Wrong. Libya's 2011 uprising was never peaceful, but instead was armed and violent from the start. Muammar al-Qaddafi did not target civilians or resort to indiscriminate force. Although inspired by humanitarian impulse, NATO's intervention did not aim mainly to protect civilians, but rather to overthrow Qaddafi's regime, even at the expense of increasing the harm to Libyans.


    The Intervention Backfired. NATO's action magnified the conflict's duration about sixfold and its death toll at least sevenfold, while also exacerbating human rights abuses, humanitarian suffering, Islamic radicalism, and weapons proliferation in Libya and its neighbors. If Libya was a "model intervention," then it was a model of failure.


    Three Lessons. First, beware rebel propaganda that seeks intervention by falsely crying genocide. Second, avoid intervening on humanitarian grounds in ways that reward rebels and thus endanger civilians, unless the state is already targeting noncombatants. Third, resist the tendency of humanitarian intervention to morph into regime change, which amplifies the risk to civilians.
  14. Robert

    Robert Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

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    The events in Libya also seriously angered Putin who described the murder of Gaddafi as not just medieval but primeval. Most likely the tandem switch would have happened anyway but I suspect one of the main reasons why Putin wanted to take back the presidency was to have control of foreign policy to prevent a repetition in Syria of what happened in Libya.

    Saker's latest post on the Kerry-Lavrov deal

    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/i-want-to-begin-this-post-by-sincerely.html

    He's convinced the regime change hardliners will abuse the inspection process just as the neocons did in Iraq.
  15. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    This is my response to the Saker. I am grateful to him because it has given me the opportunity to analyse the Lavrov Kerry agreement in some detail.
  16. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Dear Patrick,

    If I may be forgiven a little "blogwhoring" here is what I wrote about the Libyan conflict way back in the autumn of 2011 shortly after Gaddafi was killed. Very much like your analysis of the 2008 South Ossetia war it was made on the end of a computer based on information in the public domain. Like that analysis I think it has stood up well.

    http://mercouris.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/pirate-raid-on-libya/
  17. Kolokol

    Kolokol Office Registrar (13th class)

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    Here is an interesting comment by Gareth Porter:



  18. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    Kolokol likes this.
  19. Kolokol

    Kolokol Office Registrar (13th class)

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    Israel Shamir has written about the ballistic missile test in the Mediterranean. Comments?
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/10/the-cape-of-good-hope/
  20. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    Naval presence in the Mediterranean waters off Syria is quite impressive I must say.

    For instance, the VMF has so far deployed (as of October 5th):
    • 1 cruiser
    • 2 destroyers
    • 1 frigate
    • 6 amphibious assault/landing ships
    • 1 intelligence ship
    • Various support vessels, tankers etc.
    The USN:
    • 5 destroyers
    • 1 amphibious assault ship
    • 1 nuclear submarine
    • 1 Navy tanker
    The Royal Navy:
    • 1 frigate
    • 1 nuclear submarine
    The Marine Nationale:
    • 1 destroyer
    The Deutsche Marine:
    • 1 intelligence ship

    Various Israeli vessels are probably on maneuvers there also, but then again it's more or less their turf so that isn't as surprising.

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