The "Anti-Gay Law" in Russia

Discussion in 'Russian Society' started by Moscow Exile, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. john smith

    john smith Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

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    Change.org 200,00+ signatures advocating a boycott of the 2014 Sochi Olympic games.

    http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...ympics-2014-sponsors-to-condemn-anti-gay-laws
  2. MarkPavelovich

    MarkPavelovich Commissar

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    Unreal. None of that is even close to true and some of it is completely invented - the imprisonment, for example: the offense is fines-only for those found guilty, there is no provision for imprisonment. Isn't there such a thing as internationally-enforceable defamation?

    I like the qualifier "basically", and mean to use it more often in conversation, as it is a license to embellish. I basically have a huge penis, and look like Robert Redford on his best day ever. Which is to say, if I am forced to be accurate, that I have a penis, and Robert Redford and I share a casual physical resemblance in that we both have the same number of ears, eyes and noses. Hey, even on his best day ever, Redford only ever had two eyes, two ears and one nose, right? We could be twins.
    royotoyo likes this.
  3. Philip Owen

    Philip Owen Office Registrar (13th class)

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    Most hetrosexuals restrain their public displays of affection during school hours, although, as was common amogst working class young women in the UK provinces, until pushed undergraound by gay associations, many women walk down the street holding hands with their best friends . What is the heterosexual flag? Where is the Straight Pride march? And you face the same risk of imprisonment for acknowledging heterosexuality as homosexuality. It's probably more legallly dangerous to be a hetrosexual male in Sweden.
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  4. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Recognize the ginger-headed homosexual publicly displaying his ardent feelings towards his companion in Petersburg last weekend?

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Yes! It's Kirill, the homosexual who made his protest on Paratroopers' Day in St. Pete and whose daring action resulted in his being assaulted by irate paras - only it turned out that they weren't paras but right-wing extremists dressed up in spanking new military gear who just happened to be there with a gaggle of cameramen when Kirill Carrot-Top appeared for his little protest. And no matter what journalists may have said about this "confrontation", I still do not think that dear little Kirill looks at all afraid in front of these "paras".

    Why is that?

    Because he is exceptionally brave?

    Or because he knows that they are not paratroopers?

    Perhaps they were not nationalists but just a bunch of body-building gay-blades putting on a show for the conveniently assembled media men present?

    If they had been real paratroopers, I'm quite sure little Kirill would have been shitting bricks.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I also think that the other lover-boy exchanging spit with ginger is the one standing second left below.

    [​IMG]

    The transparent that they are holding reads: "Homophobia is the religion of the sheeple".

    Just the right phraseology to garner popular support - I shouldn't think.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  5. royotoyo

    royotoyo Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

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    You gotta admit ME, he's pretty cute, a more than worthy poster boy for the movement.
  6. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    The homosexual assault on the Evil Empire lept back into action yesterday, as the Moscow Times reported here: Gays' Anti-Russia Protests Enter New Phase in New York.

    The delighted LR mouths it off in the comments section about this well orchestrated protest in New York by saying that "gay persecution" in Russia has been compounded by events such as the recent plane crash in Kazan, a doping scandal, Nemtsov's most recent of exposés concerning Sochi construction corruption, the Greenpeace "persecution" and - wait for it! - the "torture of Nadezhda Tolokonnikova".

    Everything, it seems, is falling into place and the overthrow of the tyrant is at hand!

    The world waits with baited breath.

    The thing that gets me most about all this protesting by sodomites together with their supporters against the "anti-gay" law in Russia and their apparent attempt to boycott Russia from trade and investment is their belief that without a trade and investment lifeline with the USA, Russia will wither away and die. But how much trade does the US do with Russia? How many US companies invest in the Evil Empire?

    Far fewer than do Western European ones, I should imagine, and I hear no cries of human rights Angst from Germany as regard its trade with that country where gangs under the directions of its very, very, very, very evil tyrannical leader go around murdering homosexuals.

    "In the civilised world", writes an irate MT reader, "we see that the whole purpose of the law to persecute a minority. Russia needs to realise that unless this fascist law is repealed then these protests will continue and will damage the Russian economy".

    I like the "civilised" bit.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  7. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    It's in print, so it must be true:
    Selena Gomez has had her Russian Visa denied, cancelling two upcoming concerts in St. Petersburg and Moscow for what the Moscow Times is reporting as an after-effect of the country’s inhuman anti-gay laws.

    As The Atlantic points out, the decision is a curious one, since both Cher and Elton John are expected to perform in Russia later this year. Still, this isn’t unforseable. In Russia, Vladimir Putin’s oppressive laws have made it virtually illegal to even acknowledge that homosexuality exists, and implying that they deserve equal rights is a jailable offence.


    http://www.aux.tv/2013/09/anti-gay-...AUX Feed&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Outbrain
  8. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    It is truly absurd how persistent these myths are. Really, the Russian state should look into suing for libel or something. :p

    Also, the entire story sounds fishy. Here are some lovely headlines from the interwebs, for your pleasure:
    Selena Gomez Denied Russian Visa for Not Hating Gay People (fuse.tv)
    Selena Gomez BANNED From Russia Over Gay Rights (gossipcop.com)
    Selena Gomez Is Too Gay-Friendly For Russia! (perezhilton.com)
    Russia Denies Selena Gomez a Visa Over Concerns She'll Speak Out Against Anti-Gay Laws (towleroad.com)

    Now, some research quickly reveals that it's labelled a bureaucractic problem by the in-situ tour organizers, something regarding commercial activities, and that upon learning this, Gomez' staff did not bother to apply again, this time for the correct type of visa.

    At any rate, presumably Elton John still got the paperwork done the right way as he's due to perform next week at Crocus City Hall in Moscow and in Kazan the day after. Also, John already had two planned shows in Russia earlier this year, though he was forced to cancel them due to appendicitis. Not a word about any visa troubles there.

    I guess one could always put a spin on that too though.
    Аппендицит?
    Виноват Путин, виноват Путин!
    В том, что я по утру поперхнулся чаем
    Виноват Путин, виноват Путин!
    В том, что я вчера нажрался и сегодня мутит
    Виноват Путин, виноват Путин!


    Now, I'm not naive either - it is fairly clear that these sudden bureaucratic issues, while legitimate per se, were coined due to things like the fairly recent over-the-top Bloodhound Gang episode in Ukraine. That was about desecrating flags and such, which is a criminal offense in a whole lot of countries, and in countries where it's not specifically an offense it still tends to fall under disorderly conduct and render punishment as such anyway.

    Gomez probably had nothing of the sort in mind and I have a generally hard time seeing Russian authorities care about her to that extent (what exactly has she done that would "warrant" such attention, again?), even though they are understandably tired of all kinds of antics by Western artists. Yes, newsflash for you - they have a different idea of what's appropriate and what isn't.

    If anything, she just happened to fall victim to this bureaucratic gibberish, did not bother to sort it out even though it was by all means possible, and then people went on to make a huge number out of it - thus quite cleverly turning something that might or might not have contained an anti-"anti-gay" component into something that definitely does.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  9. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    What a lot of crap this all is! I had stopped paying attention. So here's how the Grauniad spins the fact that Elton John has a visa. It's still a Russian sin.

    Elton John won't cancel his forthcoming Moscow show, despite protests from homophobic activists in Russia about his visit later this year. The singer will go ahead with his concert on 6 December and hopes to be able to "talk to some people" at the Kremlin.

    http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/sep/26/elton-john-russia-homophobic-protest
  10. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    It is patently obvious that no matter what "Russia"- or, in the eyes of many, "Putin" - does, in the eyes of those that control Western policies Russia can do no right.

    Guardianistas represent an extreme version of liberalasts, the baying voice of right-on PC. Only the other week during one of that rag's regular onslaughts in an article against Russia, in particular that benighted country's "anti-gay" law and its endemic "homophobia", in the comments to said article a homosexual resident in Russia countered the Guardianistas hysterical comments, saying that he had lived and worked in Russia for many years and had not suffered as a consequence of his homosexuality; that he frequented homosexual bars etc. in Moscow and was happy enough with his private life there.

    Either this homosexual was a Russian citizen fluent to a native speaker standard in English or, more likely the case, judging from his style and spelling, a British expat in Moscow.

    Immediately there came the response to his contribution off the liberasts, where it was stated that clearly being a homosexual did not sometimes prevent one having right-wing reactionary attitudes and that the commentator was obviously British and, furthermore, that he was in the pay of the FSB.

    Such a reaction has been evident earlier: even when certain sections of the Russian "LGBT community" protest against what they believe is counterproductive interference in their affairs by Western homosexuals, they are ridiculed, derided, and accused of being traitors to the cause of those Western sodomists who claim that they want to make the world a better place to live in through the public display and "celebration" of their joy in having peculiar sexual preferences.
  11. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    Swedish state television are currently showing a British two-part documentary on homophobia world wide, presented by Stephen Fry. In episode #2, he goes to Russia to assess the situation there. Somebody uploaded it all onto YouTube, so here it is (Russia segment starts about 22:20 in):

    The 1st part is somewhere on the tube as well.

    There are a number of peculiarities in there. What do you guys think?
  12. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    I am not quite sure whether the following should be posted in the media section as what I have written refers both to the Western media treatment of Russian stories and also its spin on Russian "homophobia".

    I first posted this on "Kremlin Stooge".

    In today’s MT, Bovt rants on about the fact that newly appointed director of “Rossia Segodnya”, Dmitry Kiselov, has “called for prohibiting homosexuals from volunteering as organ donors”.

    See: The Kremlin's New Chief Propagandist

    Bang on cue in the comments section appears LR clone “willyanon” with:
    “This vile creature Kiselyov is no journalist, he is nothing but an intellectual and moral pervert who has prostituted himself to the Kremlin. His Putinist delusional paranoia is the best anti-dote to the Kremlin’s campaign to win over public opinion in the West. Give them enough rope and they will hand [sic] themselves.”

    (Is that a typo, I wonder, or is “willy” not a native speaker? The other day he said that Russians are “zombies”: all of them, mind you, not some. Clearly he has forgotten his claim that his spouse is Russian.)

    I immediately responded as follows:

    ‘In the US, the current guidance from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is to indefinitely defer any male donor who has had sex with another man, in the period from 1977 to the present day. In early 2012 the Department of Health in the United Kingdom asked for comments on a pilot study to ‘assess alternative policies that would allow some gay and bisexual men to donate blood’…

    ‘Female sexual partners of MSM are deferred for one year since the last exposure. This is the same policy used for any sexual partner of someone in a high risk group. The argument used to follow these policies is that blood should be collected from a population that is at low risk for disease, since the tests are not perfect and human error may lead to infected units not being properly discarded, and these population groups would be considered a high risk. The policy was first put in place in 1985….

    ‘In Finland, the parliamentary ombudsman launched an investigation on the possible unconstitutionality of the lifetime ban in January 2006. In June 2008, it was concluded that the ban was not unlawful in Finland as it is based on “appropriately reasoned epidemiological information” and because it is related to sexual behaviour rather than sexual orientation…

    ‘The UK lifted its lifetime ban on MSM blood donation in September 2011, and changed the policy to simply restrict men who have had sex with another man within the previous 12 months…

    ‘Since 2009, the New Zealand Blood Service (NZBS) have deferred males who have had oral or anal intercourse, with or without protection, with another male for five years…’


    See: Gay male blood donor controversy

    And should anyone wish to quibble over the fact that Kiselyov called for a ban on homosexual organ transplants, may I remind them that blood is classified as an ‘organ’, albeit a liquid one.

    See also: Health Canada Bans Homosexual Organ Donations

    ‘And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?’

    Matthew 7:3'

    And in a twinkling of said eye, my comment went straight down the tube.

    Now what was it that Bovt was chunnering on about as regards 'propagandistic' news media…?"
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
  13. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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  14. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Yes, I posted that "Die Zeit" interview.

    Liberal-minded Germans are still atoning for the sins of many of their grandfathers and bend over backwards so as not to fall on their faces. Especially because Hitler's party line was (officially) that homosexuality was an abomination, liberal Germans mostly sing the joys of homosexuality from the rooftops, or so it seemed to me when I lived in Germany. It used to strike me that the Germans' strong desire to disassociate themselves from their unfortunate past led to them following the rule that if Hitler like something it is bad and if he disliked something it is good.

    This attitude had, for me in any case, a funny turn around when they started banning smoking in cafés and bars etc. in Germany. Very many Germans thought that a blanket ban on pursuing their habit away from their own homes and property was too much, but the very health-conscious, "Green" Germans won the day in the fight against smoking.

    And then some German smokers began to point out to the squeaky-clean, health-conscious majority that Hitler absolutely abhorred the smoking of tobacco and that plans were afoot to ban tobacco products totally once the war was won and Greater Germania ruled Europe. In fact, the first thing that all those who shared the Berlin Führerbunker with Hitler during the final days of the Reich did after their Führer had blown his brains out was to light up.

    Embarrassed faces all round amongst the latter-day anti-smoking Gestapo.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
  15. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    A teacher at a Swedish high school has gotten his students involved in a campaign all about flicking Putin off (well, in the rare event that he would stumble upon their Twitter campaign, I suppose):
    http://op.se/lanet/ostersund/1.6740227-de-vill-att-alla-ska-peka-finger-at-putin

    So basically, it is said to have begun when this teacher, Alee Farrohi (sounds Iranian...) came across some "article on LGBT rights" in Russia. Things then apparently escalated quickly and now the plan seems to be to throw obscene insults at Putin to have him... Well, to have him sans popular support retroactively veto an amendment to article 14 not written by him, straight against the wishes of a majority of the Russian people, the State Duma, the Federation Council and by extension the democratic principles that got it there in the first place.

    Doesn't sound that well thought out, but then again - what is these days?

    One commenter noted that it all bears an eerie resemblance to Orwell's infamous "two minutes of hate". I'm just baffled that a teacher wants his students to flick people off, back when I was in high school people got detentions for giving the finger. :D Oh, and I'm baffled by the haphazardness as I said. Once again it doesn't seem like anybody actually studied the text before jumping on the finger-giving bandwagon, nor studied its conception or what the people think.

    EDIT: Seems like you're an evil "homophobe" for pointing out these basic facts. Lovely.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  16. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    This is well worth reading:

    Russian Federation Anti-Gay Laws: An Analysis & Deconstruction
    Brian M.Heiss, 2014
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/203356052/Russian-LGBT-Law-White-Paper

    At the time that was written, Kansas had not yet approved their spankin' new gay segregation bill.

    With this in mind, and considering A. that the Constitution of the Russian Federation protects basic human rights (including LGBT ditto, of course) and B. that they last September announced their willingness to follow UNHRC's recommendations on the matter, rather ironically it seems like the one big place that has really regressed as far as gay rights go since the Russian federal law amendment last summer is the United States. Of course, gays aren't being persecuted as part of some kind of evil federal campaign in the States, that'd be ludicrous to suggest - but nor are they in Russia. At most, it's a minor legislative nuisance that has no tangible impact on LGBT rights.

    Far more worthy of attention is India - India's pretty big and they banned homosexuality outright not long ago. And then you always have all those other places, quite a sizable chunk of nations that has kept it illegal (and sometimes punishable by death) all this time, out of which a bunch are esteemed US allies.

    Well, this we all know. Heiss' paper provides a sober perspective anyway.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  17. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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    hy·poc·ri·sy
    /hiˈpäkrisē/
    noun
    noun: hypocrisy; plural noun: hypocrisies
    1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense. Synonyms: dissimulation, false virtue, cant, posturing, affectation, speciousness, empty talk, insincerity, falseness, deceit, dishonesty, mendacity, pretense, duplicity;

    See also German President Joachim Gauck refusing to attend Sochi opening because of law forbidding propaganda of homosexuality to children and visiting a country where homosexuality is a crime during the games:

    http://www.dw.de/cautious-praise-for-myanmar-from-german-president-gauck/a-17421751

    I hereby nominate him for the Russia Debate 2014 Newt Gingrich Sincerity Award!
  18. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    Indeed... :)

    Now Arizona has followed Kansas: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill
  19. Carlo

    Carlo Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    If someone here reads Spanish, this is a good look on how in the "Western periphery" (Latin America) we also have the typical rant about how homosexuals are persecuted in Russia "like criminals":
    http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1667236-...aron-en-la-argentina-y-pediran-ser-refugiados
    "Two Russian men got married in Argentina and will ask to be [considered as] refugees
    Alexander and Dmitri, two gay men of Russian nationality, got married today; they seek political asylum because in their country they are persecuted as criminals"
    Funny thing is that, after all the stories on persecution and mentioning many times the "homophobic laws" in force in Russia, below there is a map with information on each country's laws regarding homosexuality, and states (correctly) that Russia is a country with no defined legislation.
    By the way, La Nación is the most conservative newspaper in Argentina.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014

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