The "Anti-Gay Law" in Russia

Discussion in 'Russian Society' started by Moscow Exile, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    Examples of retard comments in the UK Independent Isinbaeva article ('We are normal Russians': Pole Vaulter Yelena Isinbayeva, defends anti-gay laws) of 15th August 2013:


    "Why is this man competing in the women's division? I guess when you make gays illegal, you lose the ability to spot a tranny."

    "All I'm saying is that this person has a very large Adam's apple. 'She' should be genetically tested to make sure she isn't a man competing in the women's division."

    "Actually violent treatment of gays in Russia is reported across a lot of respectable media in the West. Russia does not have a truly free press."

    "She is obviously thick and or latent or a victim of child sexual abuse. Why anyone pays attention to someone whose skills are muscular and not brain power I cannot imagine."

    "And we thought that all Russian athletes were lesbians anyway."

    "Latent homosexuality IS linked with homophobic attitudes so yes she might indeed be "protesting too much" but then everyone likes to suck up to a Mafia like government."

  2. MarkPavelovich

    MarkPavelovich Commissar

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Victoria, British Columbia
    Yep. Sure looks like a man to me.

    http://www.superbwallpapers.com/sports/yelena-isinbayeva-9689/

    The kind of guy I would like to shower with. Say, buddy; can I....uhhhh...do your back for you?

    "She is obviously thick and or latent or a victim of child sexual abuse. Why anyone pays attention to someone whose skills are muscular and not brain power I cannot imagine."

    Yelena Isinbayeva has both a Masters and a Bachelor's degree from the Volgograd State Academy of Physical Culture, and is currently studying at the Donetsk National Technical University. She is also a Captain in the Russian Army, although her rank is largely honorary.

    As to the bibblebabble about her having dissed Volgograd, and "offended millions",

    http://www.theweek.co.uk/athletics/54782/isinbayeva-attacks-penniless-volgograd-ahead-world-cup

    Isinbayeva said she wanted to live somewhere else way back in 2006.

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2006/jan/03/athletics.comment

    "I still feel very Russian. I also feel needed in Russia, so that's why I am there. Maybe in the future I will move but for now I stay in my flat in Volgograd."
  3. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    45
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    So on Tuesday (August 27th), Nikolay Alekseyev will discuss things live on Russia Today.

    Apparently the Western gay world has now completely disowned him because of his recent remarks on Western media, Masha Gessen, his statements about not feeling particularly oppressed in Russia as a gay man and so on. Funny how it goes.
    AKarlin and Alexander Mercouris like this.
  4. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    62
    Gender:
    Male
    Here in fact is Alekseyev's article on the subject posted by RT.

    http://rt.com/op-edge/russia-gay-rights-sochi-945/

    I think this is a very impressive article that speaks well of Alekseyev's political sense and maturity. He strongly condemns the gatecrashers and opportunists like Masha Gessen and Vyacheslav Revin who have clambered on to the band wagon against the law to promote their own self interested and occasionally selfish agendas. He strongly criticises the western campaign against the law, which he clearly considers manipulative and self serving and anti Russian. He ridicules the suggestion that the law and its regional predecessors are anything other than paper tigers or that they bear any sort of comparison to the Nazi persecution of the Jews. He makes plain his complete disagreement with the boycott Sochi campaign, which he points out will only make the position of the Russian LGBT community worse if it succeeds. He challenges the western view that Russians are as generally homophobic as is being suggested. He also says that the correct way to challenge laws of this sort is through proper political activity and through the Courts including the European Court of Human Rights. He expresses his own faith in his own people and country and is confident that the law will in time be repealed as attitudes change.

    I don't agree with everything in Alekseyev's article. I don't agree for example with his suggestion that travel bans should be imposed on Russian politicians who promote these laws. Despite such caveats it is an impressive article showing a high level of political maturity and understanding. I wish other opposition politicians could write and talk so intelligently.

    For the rest Drutten is absolutely right. I have checked the relevant LGBT websites in the US and Britain. They have dumped Alekseyev despite the fact that he is the most famous gay activist in Russia. As I have said throughout, the people behind this campaign are not really interested in LGBT people in Russia or in their opinions. They have their own poses to strike.
  5. AKarlin

    AKarlin Generalissimo Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    39
    The LDPR candidate Degtyarev has submitted a bill to the Duma which would ban homosexuals from donating blood.

    This is actually not homophobic (though Degtyarev himself is) but commonsense. The HIV rate of gay American men is 20% compared to less than 1% for the rest of the population; in the UK, it is 5%, compared to a negligible percentage for the overall population.

    Politically incorrect the observation might be, but anal sex is objectively orders of magnitude riskier than heterosexual sex. It does not make sense to force people to accept higher risks when undergoing blood transfusions just to tick some box in the equality list.
  6. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa
  7. AKarlin

    AKarlin Generalissimo Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    39
    It now appears that the Western LGBT community / Russian emigres are actively slandering (some from the comforts of their NY porn studios) Alexeyev for not being anti-Sochi/Stoli, to the extent that he has now announced he will drop out of LGBT activism and close down his Twitter account.

    I'm saving/reprinting his last Tweets for posterity.

    1. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev10m
      On the top of @MichaelLucasNYC the owners of http://Out.Com website will be sued for libel and slander. 2 million USD moral damages.


      Expand
    2. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev36m
      My final media appearance will be this Saturday night at Russia Today @RT_com during LGBT debate. After that I am free to do what I want.


      Expand
    3. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev48m
      I am in emergency proceedings to give up the leadership of Moscow Pride. I had a clear candidature and was denied. Working more.


      Expand
    4. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev1h
      Оскорбляйте меня сколько хотите, но никому не дам оскорблять мою маму! Это самая смелая женщина, которую я знаю! Я ее люблю слишком сильно!


      Expand
    5. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev1h
      You can insult me as much as you want but I will not allow anyone to insult my mum. She is the most courageous woman I know!


      Expand
    6. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev2h
      I think Russian LGBTs will for sure say thanks to @MichaelLucasNYC as they have to refile all cases at ECHR. 5-7 years lost.


      Expand
    7. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev2h
      Within 24 hours this Twitter account will be closed. Thanks to all who was with me and courageous activists in Russia for years.


      Expand
    8. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev2h
      All 30 cases at European Court on all aspects of LGBT human rights violations in Russia will be withdrawn. Thanks to @MichaelLucasNYC


      Expand
    9. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev2h
      All the world can thank @MichaelLucasNYC I decided to leave LGBT activism. I only paid own money and faced insults.


      Expand
    10. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev3h
      @matbreen I am ready to write anything and answer any questions. But what can someone reply to slander and insults?


      View conversation
    11. [​IMG]Matthew Breen ‏@matbreen3h
      @n_alexeyev Do you want to write a rebuttal?

      Retweeted by Nikolai Alexeyev
      View conversation
    12. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev4h
      I am calling http://Out.com website to remove slanderous and insulting article of Michael Lucas against me! Write to them!


      Expand
    13. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev4h
      @rfortitude Anyone can donate to GayRussia Fund at PayPal. Just donate to moscowpride(at)http://yahoo.com transparent & accountable


      View conversation
    14. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev4h
      I will sue Michael Lucas for this article - Nikolai Alexeyev: The Kremlin’s New Pocket Gay | Out Magazine: http://www.out.com/news-opinion/2013/08/28/nikolai-alexeyev-kremlin-new-pocket-gay#.Uh4ZbHGy4kE.twitter…
    Alexander Mercouris likes this.
  8. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    62
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexeyev is right to be furious. Here is Michael Lucas's article that he so strongly objects to. Apparently Alexeyev is an agent of the Kremlin and his betrayal is analogous to that of the Soviet Anti Zionist Committee.

    http://www.out.com/news-opinion/2013/08/28/nikolai-alexeyev-kremlin-new-pocket-gay

    I am sorry he is withdrawing his cases in the ECHR. If he reads this I would urge him to reconsider. His fight is for LGBT people in Russia for whom he has devoted much of his life. I haven't always agreed with Alexeyev's tactics but his approach to the ECHR is unquestionably the right one. It would be a shame if idiots like Michael Lucas with their own agendas far away in their comfortable exiles in the US divert him from it. As I said previously I was very impressed by Alexeyev's article for RT and for the confidence he has in his people and country and I feel sure that in time that confidence will be vindicated.
  9. MarkPavelovich

    MarkPavelovich Commissar

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Victoria, British Columbia
    "I am sorry he is withdrawing his cases in the ECHR. If he reads this I would urge him to reconsider. His fight is for LGBT people in Russia for whom he has devoted much of his life. I haven't always agreed with Alexeyev's tactics but his approach to the ECHR is unquestionably the right one. It would be a shame if idiots like Michael Lucas with their own agendas far away in their comfortable exiles in the US divert him from it. As I said previously I was very impressed by Alexeyev's article for RT and for the confidence he has in his people and country and I feel sure that in time that confidence will be vindicated."

    Why don't you write to him and urge him to reconsider? It couldn't hurt, and it might help. You have a persuasive way about you, and your argument is a solid one, I think. I also think he is just reacting, and doesn't really want to withdraw the action; he's probably just hoping someone will stop him. Why shouldn't it be you?
  10. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Would this Michael Lucas have anything to do with Edward Lucas?
  11. AKarlin

    AKarlin Generalissimo Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    39
  12. MarkPavelovich

    MarkPavelovich Commissar

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Victoria, British Columbia
  13. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    62
    Gender:
    Male
    I am sure Michael Lucas has no connection to Ed Lucas. Michael Lucas is from a Soviet Jewish family that emigrated to the US. He has made his reputation and fortune by directing gay erotic (possibly pornographic for some though I have not seen any of them) films. Here is his Wikipedia biography.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Lucas_(director)
  14. AKarlin

    AKarlin Generalissimo Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    39
    Continuing to read Alexeyev's Twitter feed.

    I'm sorry to see this, but it can't be reasonably denied - the dude has gone over into the deep end.

    I mean sure, "anti-Semitism" is an artifically constructed (or should I say grown) hot potato in the US. But ranting about the "American Jewish mafia"? Sure it's driven by some desire to troll as opposed to any real anti-Semitic sentiment, but that doesn't detract from from the fact that US progressives are puritanical ideologues and will never forgive or forget this. Alexeyev has buried his foreign credibility forever, and I don't see it being made up in Russia itself.
    Alexander Mercouris likes this.
  15. MarkPavelovich

    MarkPavelovich Commissar

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Victoria, British Columbia
    "I'm sorry to see this, but it can't be reasonably denied - the dude has gone over into the deep end.

    I mean sure, "anti-Semitism" is an artifically constructed (or should I say grown) hot potato in the US. But ranting about the "American Jewish mafia"? Sure it's driven by some desire to troll as opposed to any real anti-Semitic sentiment, but that doesn't detract from from the fact that US progressives are puritanical ideologues and will never forgive or forget this. Alexeyev has buried his foreign credibility forever, and I don't see it being made up in Russia itself."

    A shame indeed, since his new detractors in the gay-activist field will now use it to suggest he was unstable all along, and perhaps - horrors!! the betrayal!!! - not even gay.

    That loon Victor Davidoff has a new post up at The Moscow Times birdcage-liner which infers that it is a crime in Russia to eat an ice-cream cone, because it is reminiscent of oral sex. I have to say, not the way I eat it - perhaps Ksenya Sobchak has picked up some extra tricks in her march towards media glory.

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/when-eating-an-ice-cream-cone-is-a-crime/485315.html

    I submitted a comment right away, and it lasted less than 20 minutes before being deleted without even the customary "This comment was deleted" to mark that it was ever there. Here it is.

    "Is eating an ice-cream cone a crime, Victor? Yes or no? Unless you have something more than this silliness to substantiate it, you should change your headline, because obviously it is rubbish.

    Yes, unbelievable that the representatives of the country's authority would not see the humor in a painting of the president wearing women's underwear, isn't it? Such a sick, repressive country, it ought to learn to lighten up, like real free countries. You know, like in wonderful free America, where if somebody mocked the president, it would just bring good-natured chuckles.

    Like in Missouri, where a rodeo clown wore an Obama mask and asked the crowd if they would like to see him "run down by a bull". Far from good-natured chuckling, the Land Of The Free experienced instant bipartisan outrage. The offender was banned from ever appearing again at the State Fair, state lawmakers speculated about financial consequences for the venue, and the fair itself described the incident as "an unconscionable stunt" that was "inappropriate and not in keeping with the fair's standards". What??? I guess he made a big mistake by not dressing in women's panties and yelling, "Look at me!! I'm the president!!!" Because of course then people would have understood that it was an artistic statement.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-permanent-ban-from-performing-at-state-fair/

    Wow - epiphany. Wearing an Obama mask is a crime.

    Well, then, let's go to gay-loving Britain, shall we, where you can doubtless deep-throat an ice-cream cone and give it lots of lascivious licks without raising an eyebrow, what say? Oh, oops; I'm afraid not. Just this morning a transgendered woman was arrested for vomiting outside a French restaurant in Soho, whereupon the police ripped off her wig and dumped the contents of her handbag onto the street, shouting, "You're not normal. We'll let you up in a few minutes, but you need to act like a normal human being". She should have showed them how she can suggestively suck an ice-cream cone; they would have melted and said "Hey, you're all right. Can I wear your underpants?"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-transgender-woman-during-arrest-8505650.html

    Vomiting in public, apparently, is a crime in Britain. Stay off that roller-coaster, kids.

    Whoops, back to the United States again for a moment, where apparently agreeing to go to somebody's home for drinks is a crime, even if you are an adult. No, I'm not joking; an undercover police officer in Baton Rouge, Louisiana - in as clear-cut a case of entrapment as you are ever likely to see - asked a man he observed apparently cruising a local park if he would like to "go to his apartment for some drinks and some fun", and asked him if he had condoms. He fell for it and badd-bing, badda-boom, he's arrested under the state's anti-sodomy law, although no sodomy took place and the officer did not reveal that he was a policeman.

    http://www.ibtimes.com/baton-rouge-...rm-over-arrests-gays-obsolete-charges-1361993

    If you can think of a way you could appear more of an ass than suggesting it is a crime to eat an ice-cream cone in Russia because it makes minor children think of oral sex, I'd surely like to see it. In fact, you should breathe a silent prayer of thankfulness that being an idiot is not a crime in Russia."
  16. AKarlin

    AKarlin Generalissimo Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    39
    Latest Tweets from Alexeyev:

    (1) It's not a secret anymore that I am Russian Jorg Haider or Pim Fortuyan. I will do what they were not able to finish.

    (2) Decided, that I will vote for Navalny in the elections - not for the gay parades, but because he's a moderate nationalist.

    Gotta commend him on one thing... with this, we can say that their liberal progressive supporters in the West are now officially mindfucked.

    (Or they would be, if many of them hadn't unfollowed Alexeyev because of his regrettable trolling against kikes and jids).




    1. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev10h
      It's not a secret anymore that I am Russian Jorg Haider or Pim Fortuyan. I will do what they were not able to finish.

    2. [​IMG]Nikolai Alexeyev ‏@n_alexeyev49m
      Решил, что все-таки буду голосовать на мэрских выборах за @navalny но не за разрешение гей-парадов, а за то, что он умеренный националист.

    UPDATE

    Looks like Lucas had a point after all.

    --> Putin now has the opportunity to make a smart move by meeting with gay activists on the day of Obama's visit. But with other gay activists.

    Politically astute - if it works out. But somehow I don't think Putin will play ball.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
  17. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    Latest from RT: “Russian Gay Pride organizer seeks urgent meeting with Putin”

    “The activist even said in a press interview on Tuesday that “US LGBT campaigners are attempting to seize power in Russia – the power over the Russian LGBT movement,” adding that the recent initiatives of boycotting Russian vodka or the upcoming Winter Olympics in Sochi were undermining the Russian gay rights movement.”

    Alekseev can’t be a real Gay! :)

    What will Kirchick think of all of this, I wonder?
  18. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    45
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    I share Alekseyev's concerns regarding the "activists" that President Obama is supposed to meet up with. Unfortunately, if Alekseyev does meet up with Putin in the midst of all this ado then that will only further cement the Western notion that he's some kind of stooge - they've already invcnted the divide and they're gonna stick to it. A clever move indeed.
    Alexander Mercouris likes this.
  19. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    62
    Gender:
    Male
    Putin has discussed the new law at length in his interview with Associated Press.

    http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/aps-interview-president-vladimir-putin

    The most interesting point in his comments for me was that Putin said that he did not initiate the law. I believe him but I am sure that no one in the west will.

    For the rest Putin refuted the scaremongering about the law in a largely predictable way. The damage by now has however been done.

    On the subject of Alexeyev, there is no doubt he has been pushed over the edge. I suspect that after years of criticism within Russia the abuse of people he counted on as his supporters in the west was too much to bear. I am truly sorry about this. As Anatoly Karlin says, the LGBT activists in the west leading the campaign will not forget or forgive this and his credibility is finished. I hope by the way Putin does meet him. Could it be that his comments about meeting LGBT people in the interview was intended to signal that he would? After all if he could find the time to meet with Masha Gessen a few months ago in circumstances I thought were crackers then he should find the time to meet with Alexeyev.
  20. MarkPavelovich

    MarkPavelovich Commissar

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Victoria, British Columbia
    I completely agree, and I too am sorry for Alexeyev's apparent crackup. It is interesting to note that certain figures can experience similar epiphanies, such as the indescribably oily Stanislav Belkovsky - who similarly cracked up, denounced the Coordinating Council as a bunch of ingrates and pedged to defend Putin personally as a simple footsoldier in the Kremlin line - and the western press just went straight back to reporting his juicy Kremlin insider tips as soon as he "regained his senses", as if nothing untoward had happened. Against that, the slightest wavering by Alexeyev, and he's finished.

    Gay activists may spurn Alexeyev, but the gay community will be well aware that Alexeyev is still gay no matter what else he might be, and it would be an inspiration on Putin's part to appoint him Gay Rights Ombudsman. Gay activists who wanted to get anything done would have no choice but to go through him, and if he actually achieved results he could still be a hero to the LGBT community. There would be little danger of getting basic human rights and "special" LGBT rights blurred, because he would only be an Ombudsman and consequently act in an adisory rather than a policymaking capacity. This would demonstrate that Putin's administration cares enough about LGBT rights to appoint a special advisor on the matter who is known to be both gay and a crusader for gay rights, and he might actually accomplish something in the position. I don't doubt there are specific instances in which LGBT Russians are discriminated against in employment equality, for instance, although I do not believe there is any broad-based national trend to that effect. If Alexeyev managed to highlight a couple such cases and provide a fair outcome which was publicly observed to be non-partisan and equitable, Alexeyev could be a hero.

Share This Page