The "Anti-Gay Law" in Russia

Discussion in 'Russian Society' started by Moscow Exile, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    I've been trying hard to find on the Russian web, but so far to no avail, comments made by a homosexual spokesman that used to appear when Lyzhkov was banning homosexual parades in Moscow.

    Western criticism of Lyzhkov came to a head when the former mayor was roundly condemned for his statement that homosexuals were satanists when one summer homosexuals yet again tried to force the issue by holding an unsanctioned "gay pride" parade in Moscow. It could clearly be seen at the time that there were very few homosexual participants in these futile attempts to force "gay parades" on Muscovites, who are, like the vast majority of Russian citizens and for whatever personal reason, very much against such public "celebrations" of homosexuality.

    It was also very much noticeable at the time how many of these homosexual participants in attempts at forcing a homosexual parade in Moscow were foreigners: Tatchell from the UK, of course, was at the forefront, plus Germans (the mayor of Berlin at the time was a homosexual), Dutch participants, Scandinavians and others from "liberal" Western Europe.

    Tatchell was assaulted: he claims he received brain damage as a result of his "brutal" beating, but poste-haste on his return to London he penned an opinion piece for the Guardian about his traumatic experience in Moscow.

    Meanwhile, a reaction set in back in the Evil Empire, whereby some homosexuals were saying that all this summer showboating by Tatchell and others in Moscow was doing their case no good at all.

    As I said, there was one spokesman, a homosexual, who appeared in the press and who said that he and many of his associates were very much against "gay pride" parades being foisted onto the public as they were counterproductive.

    Another thing, I remember watching a TV news report at the time of the last attempt at having an unsanctioned homosexual parade in Moscow - I think it was when the Eurovision song competition pantomime was taking place in Moscow - and a TV woman journalist asked a cop why he thought it was right that homosexuals should be prevented from publicly parading and exhibiting their sexual preferences. The law officer replied that he thought it was right to ban such parades because otherwise parents would have to explain to young children who witnessed such demonstrations exactly what actions homosexuals were so joyfully celebrating, and he didn't think that right.

    And so it seems the anti-propagandizing of homosexuality to children theme was already in gestation then.

    One final point: as previously mentioned, Lyzhkov was castigated in the West not so much for the scale of his alleged financially corrupt practices, but for his annual showdown with those who wished to make "gay pride" parades a feature of Moscow summer activities. Came the time, however, when Lyzhkov was finally ousted from his post, and there was a sudden turn about in the West as regards opinions there about the former Moscow mayor: now he was yet another hapless victim of the Evil One's machinations, another democrat who had been crushed by the tyrant and nary a word of his "homophobia" that had only a short while earlier been so frequently castigated in the Western media.
  2. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    Anybody know what happened to Kalugin after the cops rescued him?
  3. royotoyo

    royotoyo Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

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    This is a really good post with what I think are prudent, original observations and analysis.

    There are two rather unfortunate conclusions I am drawing from this pathetic episode. The first has to do with the ease by which the American masses are whipped up into a propagandistic fury. The second regards the complete and utter hopelessness of the Russian government to engage in anything even remotely resembling public relations. What's the point of seeking prestige in hosting the Olympics if you are so easily defeated in the PR space?
  4. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    People have forgotten this
    Does it really matter what these affectionate people do — so long as they don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses!
    • Reply to a young actress who asserted that an older actor in a production showed too much affection for the leading man (c. 1910); as reported by Alan Dent in Mrs. Patrick Campbell, p. 78 (1961).
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mrs_Patrick_Campbell
  5. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Type "Folsom St. photographs" into your search engine and see the wondrous world of freedom and self expression San Francisco style.

    Coming soon to the Evil Empire?

    I think not!
  6. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Only that complaints concerning his planned provocation are being petitioned on the Internet and they're going to be presented to the rector of the institute of higher education where he studies.

    See Rosbalt.

    It seems that moves are afoot to having him sent down.

    No reports that he's on a life-support machine or whatever following the not so tender mercies that he received off tanked up paras.

    See: Вчера.com
  7. SWSpires

    SWSpires Gubernial Secretary (12th class)

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    I don't think this has anything to do with "the American masses." Said masses don't generally pay attention to events in foreign countries. Most Americans are only vaguely aware that Russia exists, and they know hardly anything about it. This isn't about "masses" but about the small number of people (often connected to lobbies of some kind) who pay attention to foreign affairs.
  8. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    This is the first time that I've seen the film of the incident and it all looks like one big put up job to me - cameramen everywhere, not just the the number as would be expected on Palace Square, but professional photographers' cameras and others with big, professional video gear slung on their shoulders. And there's the girl who suddenly dashes up and grabs the rainbow banner...Where does she go? It's just "enter stage left" with her then "exit stage right".

    All planned, she being part of the act! Then suddenly cut to the paras who are just idly chatting away and being filmed. "Hey! What's going on over there?" says one. They all dash off and the homosexual is either unbelievably brave or stupid or he knows he's not going to get the living shit kicked out of him.

    And he doesn't. He just stands there with a blank look on his face and says bugger all.

    Furthermore, the "paras" are acting. I say this because they're not pissed out of shape. On Para Day the Blue Berets arrive in Peter and Moscow and anywhere else already legless and carry on until many of them become comatose and are either left behind are carried back to the stations slung between their not quite so bladdered comrades. And not one of them is carrying a bottle of booze: they are all stone-cold sober. And their bad language is not that bad. If they really had been pissed paras they would have been waxing far more lyrically than just voicing the occasional блядь.

    One big put up job!

    The only suckers in the whole scene are, in my opinion, the cops; they're not going through the motions: they really think a serious public disorder has broken out.

    If those had been genuine paras instead of actors or, as the case may be, a gang of bodybuilders, there would have been blood and snot flying from the word go.
  9. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    It seems that Kirill the provocateur is a right little tearaway.

    This is what Komsomolskaya Pravda reports has appeared on one of his VKontakte pages:

    "Пусть в каждый дом придет Содом! Пусть приходит в брошюрах, листовках и передачах, рассказывающих объективные факты о гомосексуальности!"

    ["Let every home become Sodom! Let there be brochures, leaflets and broadcasts stating objective facts about homosexuality!"]

    I presume that many of the homes which he proposes be introduced to the delights of sodomy by inundating them with prurient literature concerning the sexual habits and peccadilloes of homosexuals will have children resident there.
  10. royotoyo

    royotoyo Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

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    Normally, I'd agree with you. However, with the combination of Syria, Snowden and the upcoming Olympic games, Russia seems to be garnering an unusual amount of attention. That small number of people and the lobbies they are connected to are taking advantage of the situation to manipulate public opinion.
  11. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Not that I am suggesting of course that there exist homosexuals who want to involve children in their lurid sexual games: that's just what the Evil One and his cohorts in his freakish church suggest in order to create homophobia in Russia.

    In Folsom Street, San Francisco (WARNING! LIKELY TO CAUSE OFFENCE), the "gays" have their festival every year and get up to all sorts of lurid antics there in public

    ...because the United States of America is a FREE COUNTRY

    and not a godddam Commie dictatorship as is KGB thug Vlad Putin's Russia!!!

    And no kids are involved!!!

    Folsom Street Kiddie Fashion.

    All good, clean family fun?
  12. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    Interesting and now that you make me think, it is all rather suspiciously slo-mo and a great number of photographers. Are you then suggesting that the paras are also actors and that the whole thing was staged to be shown in the West as a real life case of nasty homophobic Russians?
    But the cops spoiled it by showing up to soon and behaving the way they should?
  13. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    *makes sure the tin-foil hat is securely in place*

    Interesting...
  14. MarkPavelovich

    MarkPavelovich Commissar

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    I still say no. For one thing, unless somebody put a tremendous amount of thought into it, usually a scam like one which would involve fake Paras showcases dumb mistakes by people who assume military insignia is all the same. All the "fake Paras" look like Paras - heavy, muscular build, military haircuts and correct military insignia - but more importantly, it would be ten times more fatal than showing up with your rainbow flag and your celebrate homosexuality slogans if you were to get caught by Paras pretending to be a Para when you are not. And the place was lousy with them, unless they were all fakes. The Para Regiment isn't so small that everybody knows everybody, but it's small enough that what, around 5 guys show up in uniform and nobody knows them? Not only that, the video has been watched a bajillion times, and since the Paras got a PR black eye over it for their dreadful homophobic behavior, I'd bet a lot of those viewers were Paras. Has there been any buzz on the intertubes by Paras, saying hey, those guys aren't really Paras? So far the biggest clue that they are fakes is that they did not appear drunk. Admittedly, that'd be unusual on Paratrooper Day, but more unusual would be a half-dozen or so phony Paras infiltrating it and not having a single drunken real Para come up to them and say, you boys don't look familiar - where'd you serve? What unit are you with?
  15. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    I wouldn't put it past being a set up job. And if it was, I wouldn't necessarily think that the arrival of the cops spoilt the show.

    The sequence of events starts off with Kirill being filmed; he gets his flag out; starts a speech which nobody can hear; there's already, after the very first seconds of his mumbling, a great number of photographers all around him - it's as though they knew what he was about, that they had been expecting his arrival; there suddenly appears an angry girl who snatches the flag off him and buggers off as quickly as she had appeared; cut to the boys having a little chat some distance away; they're not drinking, not shouting, not even tipsy; one suddenly and very amateurishly, in my opinion, says for the camera crew that just happens to be filming this band of brothers that something is happening over yonder; they all dash off to Kirill and...harangue him.

    No blows; no knocking him to the ground and putting their boots in: they just jostle him. One rubs his hand in Kirill's face a few times and Kirill says barely a word. And basically, all that the Blue Berets say is: "Fuck! This is our day."

    And when the cops come, they yank the hapless Kirill out of harm's way, which is clearly their first priority, and then the "paras" start bleating to the by then arrived OMON that Kirill had been spoiling their day. The "paras" won't disperse, so some get arrested.

    The paras or actors or hired hands or whatever will have their fines for the administrative offence paid. And what will the charges be? Breach of public order and resisting arrest? They didn't "brutally" beat dear Kirill "to a pulp", as Western journalists are fond of saying: they just pushed him around.

    It all seems somehow not right to me.

    Oh, and another thing: in my experience the "paras" look too fit. On Paratrooper Day, the vast majority of the celebrants are former-paras (in fact, I suspect that serving paras are not allowed to take part in the annual mass drunkenness that former airborne troops seem so fond of), and they look it: most of them are approaching middle age, if not having reached their '40s already, and sometimes even much older than that. Many of them, in my experience, appear to have gone to seed, have put weight on, are alkies etc. In the main, the drunken celebrants of Paratroop Day do not consist of airborne troops who are on active service and who are, therefore, in peak physical condition.

    Take a look at these fellows:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    And here's Kirill and the boys in St.Pete:

    [​IMG]

    Granted, there are some who celebrate on Paratrooper Day who certainly do look sort of fit:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    especially these:

    [​IMG]

    but those who manhandled Kirill just somehow don't seem quite right. You know - too fit, and perhaps too young:

    [​IMG]


    I rest my case.

    :)
  16. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    Is this your
    Is this your case? By analogy
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  17. MarkPavelovich

    MarkPavelovich Commissar

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    Possible, I suppose - anything is possible. But if so, it implies a degree of forethought not typical in your garden-variety white ribbon frame-up. They managed to get the uniforms right, and it's astonishing how little it takes to strike a wrong note there. But I maintain the strongest argument against it is that no real Paras have come forward to suggest those were fakes. All their faces are clear and recognizable, and a cover-up would not be in the Paras' interests. Also, if it were a scam and it were ever discovered and exposed, there would be hell to pay, not to mention the complete loss of credibility of the gay-rights movement. As juicy and exciting as a psy-op would be, I just don't think so. The kind of mind that could spot all the potential mistakes in advance would also rule it out as too risky.
  18. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    Bog znayet as they say. Your uniform point is very solid. People who do not know about uniforms think they are uniform. But they are always changing in subtle ways. A thousand tiny details. You've been in the military and I've been around them for years. We know this but lefties (who hate the military) don't.
  19. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    Ran the video past my wife, for whom I have the greatest possible respect,
    "obviously staged" "too many photographers".
    What I notice the umpteenth time through, is how steady (and edited) the camera is. In real life, there are a lot of shots of the sky and the pavement.
  20. MarkPavelovich

    MarkPavelovich Commissar

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    Too true; that's it exactly - people cooking up a scenario think it's enough to put a guy in combats in it with the insignia of an artillery company, and fail to notice his hat badge marks him as an infantryman. But to me what they fail to note about the military is that it is always accountable to somebody; its divisional chain of command, its elemental command and ultimately, the Defense Minister. For an incident which has developed such international-incident legs, I can see a fairly determined push to find and punish those responsible happening. There would immediately be high-level questions - who the hell were those guys. And the one who called the President a fag - I want to see him two ranks lower by suppertime. See to it, Colonel.

    Can you imagine a scenario in which senior members of the military establishment discovered a plot to implicate the military in a homophobic incident with international implications extending all the way to the ruin of the Olympic Games, on which billions have been spent - and then they kept silent and just let it happen? I can't. If we assume the military would squeal like a hog caught in a gate, that leaves three reasonable alternatives - one, the investigation is ongoing and not all the perpetrators have yet been identified or for some reason the military is not yet ready to announce identities and punishments; two, the military just does not give a damn, and three, it was a setup and the government is well aware of it, but is keeping quiet until it can follow the deception back to its planners. But I think the latter is the least likely. The Paras always put on a tremendous show, rolling like beached whales in the fountains in their underpants, drunkenly embracing one another, urinating on their own feet or passing out in puddles of booze sweat. It is not at all hard to imagine there would be several professional television crews on site with all their equipment, just waiting for something shootworthy to develop.

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