Russian Navy Thread

Discussion in 'The Russian Armed Forces' started by Drutten, May 17, 2013.

  1. Carlo

    Carlo Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    True. That is why only Dmitri Donskoi (the only active Typhoon still active) is used to test Bulava missiles. The same happened with the Vikramaditya, the Indians bitterly learned that it would be cheaper and faster to build a brand new aircraft carrier than refitting old Gorshkov.
  2. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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    Previously I had read that the reason the refit was canceled was because there were no large enough shipyard docks available as the refit of the Kirov class Admiral Nakhimov received higher priority. It seems all the 3 unmodernized Kirovs will be refit (Admiral Nakhimov, then Admiral Lazarev, then Admiral Ushakov).

    Rogozin recently said that from a point of view of national defense there is no need for aircraft carriers and if any are built it would be as a (geo-)political decision.

    Personally I think it would be better to replace the Kuznetzov with a single new nuclear-powered aircraft carrier of the same class to keep the capability and know-how in the russian navy, possibly building the hull in partnership with another country (India or South Korea) to save money.
  3. Reggie Kabaeva

    Reggie Kabaeva Office Registrar (13th class)

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    I would think that a country the size of Russia would need at least 2 aircraft carriers. Maybe one for the Pacific and another for the Mediterranean and/or rotation. Just the fact that adversaries would know that Russia was now fielding an advanced nuclear-powered carrier in the Mediterranean/Middle East would give some of the regime changers pause. However, I do agree that for the purely national defense of Russia's borders and territory (including it's eastern allies), there's no real need for carriers.
  4. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    I suspect that the true reason the refit of the Kuznetsov has been cancelled and why Rogozin is now pouring cold water on future plans for aircraft carriers is the same one that has hobbled all Soviet/Russian plans for aircraft carriers ever since the 1930s: whilst there is a certain hankering for aircraft carriers and a feeling that a country like Russia ought not to be without them, Russia's geographical realities mean that there is never a sufficiently strong military rationale for them that outweighs their very considerable monetary cost. The result is that plans for true aircraft carriers such as those of the 1950s and of the 1970s and 1980s never seem to be realised and the sort of "carriers" that do appear are strange hybrids like the Kiev class and the Kuznetsov.

    Contrast this with the effective and purposeful way with which the USSR developed nuclear submarines and anti ship missiles from the 1950s and the difference becomes striking.
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  5. AKarlin

    AKarlin Generalissimo Staff Member

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    Why does a country need aircraft carriers?

    In the end, it boils down to two things:

    (1) Prestige.

    (2) Intimidating disorganized countries that have oil and other resources.

    So it's perfectly natural for resource-importing and economically huge countries like the US and increasingly, China, to maintain aircraft carriers.

    It is much less evidently the case for Russia, which is a largely land-bound power with no need to either safeguard, guarantee, or acquire natural resources overseas.

    Building aircraft carriers is a huge undertaking and Russia does not have the resources to justify such expenditures (the big Soviet aircraft carriers were built in Nikolaevsk, which is now in Ukraine).

    Those same resources would be much better off invested in other aspects of military modernization, such as drones and that new DARPA-like organization Rogozin is setting up.
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  6. Reggie Kabaeva

    Reggie Kabaeva Office Registrar (13th class)

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    Of course, you're right Anatoly.

    I have come around to that conclusion as well. It would certainly be a waste of money and resources to build carriers for the mere sake of "prestige" when they would serve very little practical utility. The reality of the situation is that if a major war erupted between Russia and the US in which the gloves came off, Russia/US having carriers wouldn't matter much in the end since Russian/US/ICBM's could reach one another's carrier groups wherever they may be. We've now advanced beyond the days of WWII style ship to ship battles. Add that with the fact that Russian anti-carrier missiles are said to be the most advanced on earth - which makes sense when you think about it. It's far cheaper to mount an effective deterrence than to attempt to match the US in most cases.

    That money is much better spent on developing drone technology (which Russia is FAR behind on) & continuing the modernization of it's conventional forces for a LOT less money.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  7. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    The fourth Steregushchiy-class corvette Stoikiy is being prepared for Navy trials:
    [​IMG]
    Here she is getting de-gaussed.

    The pennant number is interesting, diverging from the 530, 531, 532 series of her earlier sister ships.

    Soon the Baltic Fleet has four of these in service, and as such it's quickly approaching its regional rivals (that have had less vessels overall, but usually more up-to-date ones).
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  8. Reggie Kabaeva

    Reggie Kabaeva Office Registrar (13th class)

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    It's interesting how ships are classified. When I saw this photo, I thought there's no way in hell that's just a "corvette." In the US, this would be classified as a "Frigate." In the US Navy, corvettes are smaller than frigates and in fact are pretty much exclusively used by the coast guard these days. I scanned the net for answers and someone explained:

    "The way warships are classified tends to be controversial, and there is no set definition for the meaning of a term. Everyone has their own views with their ships. For example Russian destroyers on which I served for many years were known as SNF (Soviet Naval Frigate) in the USSR. Since the modernization of navies, the size of the ship doesn't matter in classifying the ships."

    That Russian Corvette above looks as if it could easily pass for a destroyer in quite a few western navies.
  9. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    Yeah, it's much larger than your typical "corvette", that's for sure. The Swedish Visby class stealth corvettes have a displacement of around 600 tons, whereas the Steregushchiy class is closer to 2000 tons... I.e. a frigate, by NATO standards.


    In other news, the work on the Sevastopol is picking up speed:
    [​IMG]
  10. Morgoth

    Morgoth Office Registrar (13th class)

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    2013 was a good year for the Russian navy, the best in terms of launching and commissioning new ships since the end of the USSR with at least 4 vessels commissioned and 4 vessels launched. Although the rate of naval procurement is still to low to maintain current fleet numbers the trend is positive and Russia should be able to be bringing 5 -6 major combat vessels, into service by the latter half of this decade.

    Below I have compiled a list of the submarines, frigates and corvettes that the Russian navy commissioned and launched in 2013. The list may not be fully accurate as there is so much conflicting information and continuous revision of timetables regarding ship construction in Russia.

    Commissioned:

    Submarines:
    2 x Borei
    1 x Yasen

    Corvettes:
    1 x Steregushchy


    Launched:

    Submarines:

    1 x Kilo

    Frigates:
    2 x Admiral Grigorovich

    Corvettes:
    1 x Steregushchy




  11. Moscow Exile

    Moscow Exile Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Her Britannic Majesty’s Fleet escorts a Russian squadron through the English Channel:




    And according to the British Sunday Times, the West "fears the 'Beast from the Deep'", the SSGN Severodvinsk K-329:





  12. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    A pair of rust buckets from the Russian Coast Guard in Sochi:

    [​IMG]
  13. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    Unless there is some horrible disaster at Sochi, the anti-Russia line is going to take a big hit when this sort of thing is shown on TV. And, it will be impossible not to show something over the hours and hours of TV coverage that Olympic Games attract.
  14. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    Considering how they somehow managed to turn a (possibly delibrately) misunderstood bathroom on site into a big media piece, I wouldn't put anything past them. It'd be quite a feat not to at least "accidently" show what has happened in Russia in the past 15 years, but I'm sure they'll really try not to.
  15. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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    Work on the Admiral Nakhimov refit is starting at Sevmash, with a planned return to service date of 2018.

    The pontoons being built:

    pntoons.jpeg

    From:
    http://en.ria.ru/military_news/2014...Nuclear-Powered-Missile-Cruiser-Overhaul.html

    [​IMG]
  16. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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  17. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    The frigate Admiral Grigorovich is being floated out at Yantar:


    Admiral Gorshkov undergoing finishing touches:
    [​IMG]

    Also, the Vladivostok LHD has sailed under its own power for the first time, and will head home to Russia soon.
    José Moreira and Kolokol like this.
  18. Carlo

    Carlo Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    France is threatening to cancel the Mistral contract:
    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20140318/999919205.html
    The Mistral contract was more than anything political, as technically it in't so necessary for the Russian Navy (which is by the way constructing, albeit in a very slow pace, its own design of landing ship, the Ivan Gren). The contract was more to deepen the divide between moderately pro-Russia Europeans (France, Italy, Spain, Germany) and radically anti-Russia (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, which by the way raised their concerns when the contract was signed). It was also a diplomatic victory for Russia, as talks with France began just some months after the South Ossetian war. If France really cancels this contract, it means that relations between Europe and Russia will really turn bad.
  19. Morgoth

    Morgoth Office Registrar (13th class)

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    Russia just put into service the first Yasen class submarine, Russia will probably have at least 3 in service by 2018. It is good to see that the revitalization of the naval industry is coming along well and within a few years Russia is likely to start building large surface combatants again such as the proposes Project 21956.

    I however personally would advise Russia to focus on submarines, unlike many other major nations, Russia does not need sea lanes to trade, its geographic size ensures that it can supply and receive products from both Europe and Asia by land. In addition submarines are more cost effective and arguably for a country such as Russia which has no real interest in undertaking military campaigns in distant parts of the world, the utility of building large surface combatants and even aircraft carriers is questionable.
  20. Carlo

    Carlo Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    I fully agree, that is why I think the Mistral contract is more useful politically (alienate "Old Europe" from "New Europe" with big procurement) than militarily. I hope the plans of building carrier fleets is abandoned, as it would be tremendously expensive and not exactly useful for Russia. A small surface blue water fleet, mostly for the prestige of showing the flag and accomplishing anti-piracy tasks, will be enough with the Gorshkov-class frigates and the future project 21956 destroyer.

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