Russian Navy Thread

Discussion in 'The Russian Armed Forces' started by Drutten, May 17, 2013.

  1. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

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    Thank you all for this illuminating and informed discussion of a subject I knew little about.

    Another example of how Russia is making a comeback on all sorts of fronts, isn't it?

    I remember years ago a student of Russian history telling me (with lots of examples) that the West has many times counted Russia out but that it has always come back.
  2. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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    Carlo likes this.
  3. MarkPavelovich

    MarkPavelovich Commissar

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    Wow. Those are marvelous. I often wish we had chosen a darker grey for our ships, like most every other navy except for the British, and even theirs are more grey than ours. Ours are a weird shade, almost a pale green; it's a poor colour choice because it shows the rust terribly. And rust is inevitable on a naval vessel, you just have to keep painting to cover it up.

    http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/canada/current/halifax/toronto5.jpg

    PETR VELIKIY looks....well, great.
  4. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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  5. Reggie Kabaeva

    Reggie Kabaeva Office Registrar (13th class)

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    I couldn't get the Google translator you linked to work, but would love to read it along with the comments below it. There are simply some out there who see the US navy and/or military as invincible, and I agree that it is really too large to be conventionally challenged. But I still say that the US military machine is yet unproven against large nation states like Russia and China who have the capability to fight back and the means to sink those destroyers/carriers. Parking a carrier group in the Red Sea or Persian Gulf to bomb the hell out of a virtually defenseless Libya or Iraq would simply not work against Russia or China - that's just common-sense. Did he even consider that some of Russia's nuclear cruise missile destroyers are nuclear armed? A single nuke from one of those could destroy an entire carrier group I don't care how large they are. The US military is massive, but those assets are split up all over the world. I believe that any confrontation between the US/Russia would probably lead to nuclear war since the US enjoys such a huge advantage in military assets over Russia and there's no way Russia will risk losing the conflict or it's navy. Joint Chief Dempsey and all of the US generals were very concerned about a possible confrontation with Russia over Syria which is probably another reason why diplomacy was considered. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Hitler and Napoleon both enjoyed VAST military advantages over Russia as well and still got there assess handed to them. Of course, in those two instances we were talking about a land invasion of Russia (both of whom thought it would be a cake-walk). There are always unknowns in war, and while things look better for the US on paper, it by no means guarantees a US victory - especially if tactical nukes are used by Russia.
  6. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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    What browser are you using? You can try to use the PROMPT translator:

    http://www.translate.ru/siteTransla...urceURL=http://www.vpk-news.ru/articles/17631

    The analysis only covers a conventional clash. Although Russia dropped the no first use doctrine I don't believe it would use tactical nukes unless a full scale war was going on and it was expecting to be nuked or invaded.
  7. Carlo

    Carlo Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Really interesting. But what I think that this article misses is the scenario description. What the author seems to have in mind, considering that he only compares the assets of a USN CV group and ships of the Russian navy, is a conflict far from Russia. The likelihood of this happening is close to nil, it is not that Russia will dispatch ships to defend, say, Venezuela, against a US attack. Another scenario, also extremely unlikely, is an attack directly against Russia proper, and in such a case this country has other means to defend itself against a CV group apart from ships and submarines, which is land-based aviation. The Tu-22M3 was developed mostly to attack CV groups long before they are close enough to be able to strike Russia (even though it has a quite long range, it is not intended to be used as a strategic bomber as many think). The Su-34, if armed with antiship missiles (though I don't know how much of an antiship capability it actually has), will be even more effective, as it has smaller RCS and can fly at nap-of-earth altitude.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
  8. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    I think this was a good and realistic article. Probably it errs somewhat on the side of pessimism but the simple reality is that at the present the strength of the US Navy in the world oceans is overwhelming. Obviously if the US Navy were to deploy close to Russia the balance would shift but Russia cannot match the US Navy's power projection capability.

    Why though would Russia want to do so? It does not have the globalist aspirations the US does. Nor is Russia realistic planning for a world oceanic war that would pit its navy against that of the US.
  9. Carlo

    Carlo Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Exactly. If the purpose of the article is to say that Russia cannot fight for oceanic supremacy, well, it doesn't add anything we don't know. But if Russia needs to defend itself or close allies against a carrier attack, then I think it can, considering the very powerful land based air assets it has. And the USN knows that, that is why the likelihood of them moving a CV group close to Russia is so low, and didn't happen even in the South Ossetia war.
  10. MarkPavelovich

    MarkPavelovich Commissar

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    The USN is weak in littoral warfare, and its tendency to overdo everything in naval construction and go for the "Texas solution" (make it bigger and more expensive) resulted in the USN building two littoral-warfare ships that are the size of frigates while the Chinese built about eighty ship-killer patrol boats for a bit more than double the money the Americans spent to build two. In a littoral scenario in the massive Millennium Challenge 2002 naval exercise, the bulk of the U.S. fleet was sunk in less than a half-hour by coordinated strikes from ashore using coastal missile batteries and by small boats using suicide tactics like those used against USS COLE.

    http://marknesop.wordpress.com/2012...or-sea-the-2012-sino-russian-naval-exercises/
  11. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    Smash that bottle:
    [​IMG]

    And there she goes:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Also, here's the bow of her sister, Sevastopol:
    [​IMG]
    The stern is being built back in St. Petersburg. They will be joined next year and the whole assembly will be floated out in October 2014. So pretty much exactly a year after Vladivostok.
  12. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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    It's not the prettiest ship in the world! :/ Maybe it will look better with some helicopters on the deck.
  13. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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  14. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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  15. Carlo

    Carlo Ship Secretary (11th class)

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    Cause for the last Bulava failure was announced:
    http://lenta.ru/news/2013/11/15/bulava/
    Basically, a defective material was used in the construction of the nozzles. This same material was found in another three missiles. So it seems quality issues still persist.
  16. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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    More navy porn! Indian Kilo class INS Sindurakshak leaving the shipyard:



    I guess this was earlier this year. This is the sub that caught fire in August.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  17. José Moreira

    José Moreira High Commissar Staff Member

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  18. Drutten

    Drutten Collegiate Secretary (10th class)

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    Mikoyan has delivered the first fresh MiG-29K/KUB shipborne jet fighters for the Russian Navy, thus the process has begun to replace the old Su-33s for the Admiral Kuznetsov carrier.

    One of the earlier K's used in trials on the Kuznetsov and the Vikramaditya:
    [​IMG]

    And the old Su-33 Flanker-D's it's replacing:
    [​IMG]

    The current standing order is of twenty MiG-29Ks and four KUBs (two-seaters) to be delivered by 2015, so we're looking at an airwing of 24 new MiGs vs. the 16 old Su-33s. According to most sources, the final fixed-wing count will be at 28-30 post-2015, and an additional 16 or so helicopters.

    Things are really starting to happen now.

    In other news, the new Zvezda shipyard outside Vladivostok is nearing completion:
    http://dcss.ru/en/pictures-story/zv...age-construction-progress.-november-2013.html
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  19. Carlo

    Carlo Ship Secretary (11th class)

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  20. Reggie Kabaeva

    Reggie Kabaeva Office Registrar (13th class)

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    It probably would've been cheaper for them to have built a new carrier from the ground up anyway. I remember they encountered the same problem with the Typhoon class subs when it actually turned out to be more expensive to refit one of them than to build a brand new borey class sub.

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