BOSTON BOMBING

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by Patrick Armstrong, May 12, 2013.

  1. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Mark Ames has this "I Hope I didn't Contribute to it" at https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/didnt-contribute/b235e7a0ce7c4b7c88352792b192d12582f5e841/
    It's his explication of possible connections between CIA and Tsarnaevs, the US involvement in pretending the Chechnya wars had nothing to do with jihadism and speculations about cause and effect.

    Very much worth a read. If what he says is true (and parts certainly are) the anti-Russia tendency so strong across the spectrum of US opinion casts a long shadow.
    Alexander Mercouris likes this.
  2. Alexander Mercouris

    Alexander Mercouris Ship Secretary (11th class)

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    62
    Gender:
    Male
    Dear Patrick,

    This is a very interesting article.

    1. Far and away the best and most thorough refutation of the argument that there is no connection between the insurgency in the Caucasus and the international jihadi movement is the one regularly provided by your colleague Gordon Hahn. I find his thorough and exceptionally well researched articles on the subject simply outstanding. To my mind they get far too little attention. What they consistently show is that insurgents in the Caucasus far from seeking to conceal their jihadi intentions go out of their way to declare them. It is westerners of the sort the article talks about that choose to ignore the fact.

    2. I am afraid that there is a very long history of some people in the west trying to manipulate jihadi violence in what they believe to be their geopolitical interests. The Soviet Afghan war of the 1980s is the most famous example, but the same was true of the Yemeni conflict of the 1960s, of Israeli support for Hamas in the 1980s and early 1990s and of western support for the insurgencies in Libya and Syria more recently. The Caucasus I am afraid fits into that pattern. Almost invariably those who play this game get burnt but no lesson is ever learnt as the recent debacle in Benghazi (now apparently a no go area for westerners) shows. There has still not been a proper reassessment of western support for the jihadi war in Afghanistan in the 1980s (or of US support for the Taliban in the mid 1990s). In fact the whole subject is taboo. In the absence of any such reassessment is it surprising that lessons are never learnt.

    3. Transcending all of that, I am afraid I for one long ago came to the conclusion that for some people in the west any price is worth paying to hurt Russia. If that extends to providing help to violent jihadis like Khattab then so be it. As the article says, to people who think in this way indiscriminate jihadi violence is not terrorism provided it is directed at Russia. The Professor Williams mentioned in this article seems to be a classic case of this sort of thinking. I am completely baffled by this attitude, which I simply do not understand, but there it is.
  3. owenpolley

    owenpolley Gubernial Secretary (12th class)

    Joined:
    May 8, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Meanwhile the Jamestown Foundation has an article attempting to distance Tsarnaev from Chechen Islamism and even imply a link to Kadyrov (and then to Putin).
  4. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa
    One of the persistent fantasies of Great Powers is that they think that, when they play with little guys, they can turn the little guy on or off as they choose. They forget, in their arrogance and power, that the little guy has his own aims and ambitions. Indeed the GPs ignore -- cannot even imagine -- the possibility that the LGs may be playing them.
    Two examples -- Mohammed Heikal in Road to Ramadan gives an example of Nasser playing Brezhnev and Kosygin and, more recently, Washington may have thought it was running Saakashvili, but he had his own aims and understandings.

    Yes Khattab was an international jihadist (although not working for OBL) and this fact was very plain in the website that he ran and from other evidence as well. His Wikipedia entry is reasonably accurate.
  5. john smith

    john smith Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male


    I have to disagree it is documented since the 80's Khattab's connection to Bin Ladin who contributed $25 million to Chechen jihad which as the original French intelligence report investigating Moussaoui and later the subsequent domestic FBI and CIA intelligence memos attest to Bin Ladin and Khattabs connection to the 9/11 hijackers.

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a96hijackerschechnya#a96hijackerschechnya

    "More truth dribbled out last year when a memo entitled Bin Laden/Ibn Khattab Threat Reporting, written in April 2001 to FBI Director Louis Freeh by an assistant director and copied to eight other high-level FBI leaders, was unearthed from the Moussaoui trove of court exhibits by Newsweek reporter Philip Shenon, author of the book, The Commission. It shows the FBI itself circulated a warning about Khattab and Bin Laden five months beforehand, although after 9/11, key recipients denied having read the memo: The U.S. Government has received information indicating that serious operational planning has been underway since late 2000, with an intended culmination in late Spring 2001. These plans are being undertaken by Sunni extremists with links to Ibn al Khattab, an extremist leader in Chechnya, and to Usama Bin Laden. There are several planning channels, some with connections to Afghanistan, all within a large shared mujahideen recruitment network. All the players are heavily intertwined."

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/8430...re-9-11 warnings link to Chechnya-Ibn Khattab

    Apparently no one really bothered to notice or read the famous Phoenix memo and its connection to Chechnya when they interviewed Zacarias Mustapha Soubra who was the regional Arizona head of the British intelligence connected Muslim mercenary organisation Al Muhajiroun used by British intelligence to recruit Muslims to fight in the Balkans and Chechnya had photocopied pictures of Khattab and dead Chechen fighters posted on his apartment wall when interviewed by the FBI.

    http://www.investigativeproject.org/case/365

    "The agent appears to have been keeping an eye on a number of young Arab men. As TIME has reported, two of them--permanent residents of the U.S.--remain under FBI surveillance. According to an online report by FORTUNE, one of the men Williams was following was Zacarias Mustapha Soubra, a Lebanese student at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Williams thought some of the men might have links to al Muhajiroun (the Immigrant), a hard-line Islamic-extremist group headed by Omar Bakri, a London-based Islamic fundamentalist leader. In Britain, al Muhajiroun, whose political goal is the establishment of a worldwide Islamic caliphate, has been accused of recruiting young Muslims for jihad in Afghanistan. Originally from Syria, Bakri says he is careful to stay one step ahead of the law. "I may be on the edge," he told TIME in an interview last week, "but I don't pass it." French and Spanish judicial investigators have long viewed Bakri as one of three London Muslims--the others are Abu Hamza al-Masri, who preaches at the famous Finsbury Park mosque, and Abu Qatada, a Jordanian who disappeared at the end of last year--who are spiritual leaders of al-Qaeda. Jacquard claims that "every al-Qaeda operative recently arrested or identified in Europe had come into contact with Bakri at some time or other."

    In the interview, Bakri named Soubra the al Muhajiroun "leader" in Arizona but denied that Soubra had any links to al-Qaeda or bin Laden. (Soubra is not enrolled for the summer session at Embry-Riddle; efforts to contact him were unsuccessful.) Bakri said he thought bin Laden is "a great man; he stands for the truth, as far as Muslims are concerned," but insisted he himself did not support the Sept. 11 attacks."

    http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/05/27/time.alqaeda/

    It was reported by the BBC a year prior with private British security firms to be sending Muslims to train in camps in the US.

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/8430...London based Chechen training camps in the US

    As for Saakashvili he has his own interests in the Caucasus chief among them like Putin and Russia the union of the country but he would never have acted or even come to power on the back of a George Soros revolution if he was not serving US/Western interests especially Britain with the energy policy, military training and security lead, trained and provided by US, Britain and Israel.
    Kolokol likes this.
  6. john smith

    john smith Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Is the full article reposted anywhere else?

    There have been online independent investigators that have noted Uncle Ruslan and his connection to the CIA like USAID and running a front Chechen CIA organisation Congress of Chechen International Organizations from former CIA agent Graham Fullers house.

    http://www.madcowprod.com/2013/04/29/uncle-ruslan-aid-to-terrorists-from-cia-officials-home/
  7. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa
    What I said was "not working for OBL" not that there were no connections. You'll have to take my word for it -- I was in the business back then.
  8. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Yeah the
    There are lots of question that anyone but the torpid Western MSM might be asking.
    And, if you've got plenty of aluminum foil, check this out. Could there be any link between the two?
    Was there a secret programme to arm and train North Caucasus militants under the previous Georgian government? A clash in the Caucasus last summer exposed secrets that Georgia needs to confront, says Aage Borchgrevink

    http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/aage-borchgrevink/is-georgia-terrorist-state

    And what is that US Army-run bio lab in Georgia doing?
    http://russiadebate.com/threads/georgian-bio-labs.73/
  9. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa
  10. john smith

    john smith Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't know if your response was accidently cut off but I would appreciate a link to the full Mark Ames article if possible.

    You don't need tin foil to easily come to the obvious realisation that US and Europe are running covert terrorist trafficking operations against Russia given all the evidence and connections and same people involved in the numerous organisations, financial interest groups and policy advisors/advocates from the Balkans, Caucasus, energy, promoting Turkish interests and various ethnic separatist organisations.

    "In mid-December 1999, US officials participated in a formal meeting in Azerbaijan in which specific programs for the training and equipping of mujahedin from the Caucasus, Central and South Asia, and the Arab world were discussed and agreed upon. This meeting led to Washington’s tacit encouragement of both Muslim allies (mainly the intelligence services of Turkey, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia) and US “private security companies” (of the type that did Washington’s dirty job in the Balkans while skirting and violating the international embargo the US formally supported) to assist the Chechens and their Islamist allies to surge in spring 2000. Citing security concerns vis-à-vis Armenia and Russia, Azerbaijan adamantly refused to permit training camps on its soil."

    http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=2323
  11. john smith

    john smith Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    In an interesting coincidence the Jamestown Foundation revealed that through his infamous uncle Adnan Khashoggi interest in investing in the British dominated Chechen oil industry inked by the Maskhadov regime in London in 97 and Russia accusations that Princess Diana's Halo Trust de-mining charity was used as a cover to training Chechen militants how to lay mines.

    Adnan Khashoggi himself has a long history of supporting western backed jihadists including helping deliver the PROMISE spyware to Mid East countries the most prominent financer of jihadist terrorism from financing Bin Ladin's Sudanese infrastructure in the early 90's to the creation of oil companies that helped finance the Taliban regime prior to 9/11 according to research conducted and included in the $116 trillion 9/11 lawsuit acting on behalf the victims families.

    http://www.investigativeproject.org/case/463

    US Department of Justice

    Civil Rights Division

    Washington DC 20530


    WBR: DLJ: mb


    DJ 173-11-16


    16th May 1985



    William F Weld

    United States Attorney

    1100 McCormack Post Office and Courthouse

    Boston, Massachusetts 02109


    Dear Mr Weld,


    As agreed, Messrs, Manucher Ghorbanifar, Adnan Khashoggi and Richard Armitage will broker the transaction of the PROMISE Software to Sheik Klahid bin Mahfouz for resale and general gifts in his region contingent upon the three conditions we last spoke of. PROMISE must have a soft arrival. No Paperwork, customs, or delay. It must be equipped with special data retrieval unit. As before, you must walk the financial aspects through Credit Suisse and National Commercial Bank. If you encounter any problems contact me directly.


    Sincerely,


    WM, Bradford Reynolds

    Assistant Attorney General

    Civil Rights Division


    http://www.network54.com/Forum/8430...Contra and PROMIS SOFTWARE DEALS were linked
  12. john smith

    john smith Collegiate Registrar (14th class)

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    And the fact that Georgian troops were being trained by MPRI military contractors in sabotage techniques who have a history in the Balkans of having Islamic militants on its payroll.

    http://de-construct.net/?p=2751url
  13. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Ames article link works for me. But here it is again

    https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/didnt-contribute/b235e7a0ce7c4b7c88352792b192d12582f5e841/

    Now, tamping the tinfoil down more securely, I invite you to tell me what a low-life bottom feeder like Litvinenko would have to tell British Intelligence that was worth thousands of pounds. That Putin likes little boys, that Putin bombs apartment houses? Nah, he tells you that for free. About Russian criminals? Nah the only one he knows is BAB.

    How about Chechnya? After all he was awarded a medal by the govt of Ichkeria.
  14. Patrick Armstrong

    Patrick Armstrong Commissar

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa

Share This Page